A9 Av speed cameras

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A9 Av speed cameras

Postby DTB » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:25 pm

Meant to post about this the other day. There's bound to be some scope for discussion around the A9 average speed cameras now that some figures have been release. For anyone that missed it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-30972743

Key points from the article
A9 Safety group said overall speeding was down from 1 in 3 drivers to 1 in 20 drivers.
The cameras have detected 298 vehicles speeding in 3 months against 2493 in the same period last year.
A9 Safety group said excessive speeding (over 10mph above speed limit) was down 97%
Perth to Inverness journey now takes approx 14 mins longer.

Perhaps more important are the accident figures, or they would be if they were available. The won't be available until later in the year https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/471949/minister-admits-a9-accident-figures-will-not-be-released-for-some-time/

I've only driven it once since the cameras were put up. My main observation was that overtaking maneuvers are more dangerous than ever because many drivers don't accelerate past the object vehicle, then slow down once safely past. They pull out, accelerate to 60, then cruise. When overtaking a car going 55 mph this means a long time 'on the wrong side' of the road. It was frightening seeing cars taking 10 seconds or more to pass slower vehicles.

Ultimately the accident figures will tell the real story. Every prevented death or injury can only be a good thing.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby zebedee » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:01 pm

DTB wrote:I've only driven it once since the cameras were put up. My main observation was that overtaking maneuvers are more dangerous than ever because many drivers don't accelerate past the object vehicle, then slow down once safely past. They pull out, accelerate to 60, then cruise. When overtaking a car going 55 mph this means a long time 'on the wrong side' of the road. It was frightening seeing cars taking 10 seconds or more to pass slower vehicles.

Ultimately the accident figures will tell the real story. Every prevented death or injury can only be a good thing.



This has been my worry with this sort of thing as well. Especially as they have allowed HGVs to be doing 50mph (instead of 40mph on an A road). But hopefully as they are average speed cameras you would be ok going up to a "good overtaking speed" then slowing back down to 60mph.

It would be great if we could just sit at 60mph all the way between Perth and Inverness, but as we know you get trucks that arent allowed to go that quick and holiday makers that sometimes do 40mph while sight seeing, which just frustrates other road users in to making unsafe manoeuvres.

I dont see how after such a short time they can say it is safer, only longer term statistics will prove that.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby DTB » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:45 pm

I actually think they could have put the lorry speed limit up to 60 mph. Strictly speaking it is single carriageway, I know, but I don't really see how all of the traffic driving at 60 mph could be anything other than safer. 60 mph and keep the average speed cameras. There would be virtually no need for overtaking and traffic wouldn't bunch up, which would mean frequent gaps, which in turn would make it safer for traffic joining or crossing the A9. It isn't narrow or twisty and HGV could comfortably sit at 60 mpg.

The av speed cameras only cover the single carriageway sections so I assume the speed cops will be prowling the dual carriageway sections.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby IanH » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:12 pm

DTB wrote:The av speed cameras only cover the single carriageway sections so I assume the speed cops will be prowling the dual carriageway sections.


They aren't on the dual carriageway section South of Inverness.

They are however on the dual section South from Perth.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby zebedee » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:37 pm

DTB wrote:I actually think they could have put the lorry speed limit up to 60 mph.


Im pretty sure it is 50mph for HGVs, heard it on the news and THIS newspaper article would confirm that.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby DTB » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:53 pm

zebedee wrote:
DTB wrote:I actually think they could have put the lorry speed limit up to 60 mph.


Im pretty sure it is 50mph for HGVs, heard it on the news and THIS newspaper article would confirm that.


What I meant was I think they could increase it by another 10 mph to help with the traffic flow.


IanH - quite right about the bit from Perth south. I tend to forget the A9 extends south of Perth!
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby Richardn » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:12 pm

Allowing 50mph for a lorry????

So 25% over the speed limit is OK for an HGV, what a flaming nonsense!
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby sclements » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:22 pm

IanH wrote:
DTB wrote:The av speed cameras only cover the single carriageway sections so I assume the speed cops will be prowling the dual carriageway sections.


They aren't on the dual carriageway section South of Inverness.

They are however on the dual section South from Perth.


Can't speak for the whole of the A9 but Average speed camera's definitely cover the dual carriageway just south of Dunkeld, they start and finish on the single carriageway would expect transit time is calculated as a combination of the 70mph and 60mph sections.

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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby Muntedog » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:37 pm

As a bus driver who regularly uses the A9 north it's not the speed of car's & van's that's the problem it's the impatient idiot's who overtake at dangerous area's, such as around the outside of bend's when they cant see who's coming toward them or trying to pass umpteen vehicle's in one move eg = 3 truck's and a couple of car's

A bus will travel at 55-60mph no problem but the speed limit is 50mph so we stay at that, if caught speeding you risk loosing your licence and job, but some car/van driver's have to be somewhere before everyone else and will gladly risk there life and your's to do so.

In the summer month's the ASC made no difference, during winter ive noticed not so many idiot's but they'll be back in time for summer im sure along with the heavier traffic due to holiday maker's = more frustration for car/van driver's.

Ive had a few very close call's with head on collision's so far but having to brake hard and change direction in a 13.5 ton vehicle plus the passenger safety is something I dont like to do regularly.

No road is dangerous only those who drive it make it so.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby DTB » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:50 pm

sclements wrote:Can't speak for the whole of the A9 but Average speed camera's definitely cover the dual carriageway just south of Dunkeld, they start and finish on the single carriageway would expect transit time is calculated as a combination of the 70mph and 60mph sections.

Scott


Fairly sure that's not the case Scott. I have only ever seen reference to the average speed cameras covering the single carriageway stretches between Perth and Inverness. Average speed cameras can only really be effective over a stretch of road where there is a single speed limit.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby zebedee » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:05 pm

DTB wrote:
zebedee wrote:
DTB wrote:What I meant was I think they could increase it by another 10 mph to help with the traffic flow.


Ooooppps....yes, totally agree.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby sclements » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:40 pm

DTB wrote:
sclements wrote:Can't speak for the whole of the A9 but Average speed camera's definitely cover the dual carriageway just south of Dunkeld, they start and finish on the single carriageway would expect transit time is calculated as a combination of the 70mph and 60mph sections.

Scott


Fairly sure that's not the case Scott. I have only ever seen reference to the average speed cameras covering the single carriageway stretches between Perth and Inverness. Average speed cameras can only really be effective over a stretch of road where there is a single speed limit.


You maybe right, I assumed that the whole route north of Perth to be continuous rather than monitoring just bits, the camera before said bit of dual carriage could be the end of the single carriage and the one after the start of the next section.

If that's the case then the dual carriageway is not monitored which seems daft, approaching the end of these sections is usually quite frantic as faster vehicles try to get ahead of the slower traffic before it ends.

Although I'll continue to assume it it monitored as can do without 3 points and a £x fine.

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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby Scotty Dugg » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:22 am

That 26 mile stretch south of Perth is mindbogglingly frustrating!

Driven it more than enough times in the girlfriend's Corsa, which thankfully has cruise control, and the amount of folk that sit at 50/60 is bizarre. The speed limit is 70! causes no amount of faffing having to try and overtake them all and avoid those who are going for a +1mph overtake.

Yet to try it in the MX-5, but I can't imagine it'll be riveting. They had speed cameras at all the trouble spots, I don't know why they needed to extend it that far south.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby iain cooper » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:27 am

Muntedog wrote:As a bus driver who regularly uses the A9 north it's not the speed of car's & van's that's the problem it's the impatient idiot's who overtake at dangerous area's, such as around the outside of bend's when they cant see who's coming toward them or trying to pass umpteen vehicle's in one move eg = 3 truck's and a couple of car's

A bus will travel at 55-60mph no problem but the speed limit is 50mph so we stay at that, if caught speeding you risk loosing your licence and job, but some car/van driver's have to be somewhere before everyone else and will gladly risk there life and your's to do so.

In the summer month's the ASC made no difference, during winter ive noticed not so many idiot's but they'll be back in time for summer im sure along with the heavier traffic due to holiday maker's = more frustration for car/van driver's.

Ive had a few very close call's with head on collision's so far but having to brake hard and change direction in a 13.5 ton vehicle plus the passenger safety is something I dont like to do regularly.

No road is dangerous only those who drive it make it so.



agreed, get rid of the idiots who think they can drive better than everyone on the road, and you've solved the problem.

I think the cameras will help, but better policing and heftier penalties would also help.

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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby mgrays » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:31 pm

Scotty Dugg wrote:That 26 mile stretch south of Perth; They had speed cameras at all the trouble spots, I don't know why they needed to extend it that far south.


Yup.. the A9 South from Perth was fine with fixed cameras, but they had to waste our money of unneeded average system

The A9 North from Perth was/still is full of idiots to the point that I very rarely use it as it is the most dangerous road in Scotland. That needs the ASC system plus some boys in blue to do real policing. Meantime .. those boys in blue are now floating around Argyll..
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby Rugger » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:12 am

From the A9 website.....

The system will be visible along the A9 from just north of Keir Roundabout (Dunblane) to just south of Raigmore Interchange (Inverness). While this is approximately 136 miles (220 kms) the system will not operate over the entire length.

North of Perth there will be seven distinct average speed camera system zones all of which are single carriageway sections. The cameras are generally five to seven km apart. South of Perth, there will be 12 camera locations on the northbound carriageway and 11 on the southbound carriageway spaced every 5 to 7 km apart. South of Perth the cameras will address the high severity turning accidents being experienced at the cross-over junctions where the high speed through traffic is in conflict the slower turning traffic.

The longest single enforceable section on the A9 will be approximately 31 miles long, which is shorter than the overall length of the average speed cameras on the A77. The Perth to Dunblane dual carriageway section is 30 miles long, and so is also shorter than total length of the A77 system.

The A9 system will use the latest generation of camera technology approved for enforcement. The enforcement sections will be configured to take into account the features of the road, including changes in speed limits and dual and single carriageway sections.
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby jimk » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:20 am

mgrays wrote:Yup.. the A9 South from Perth was fine with fixed cameras, but they had to waste our money of unneeded average system


It was only fine if you were travelling the main line, like all fixed camera sites drivers slow down for the camera then speed up giving an average speed higher than the speed limit. This gives difficulties for traffic turning across the carriageway, especially agricultural traffic. It was because of the number of right turn and carriageway crossing incidents that SPECS was put on this section.

A fatal accident on a trunk road costs society somewhere in the region of £2m, if the average speed cameras result in saving 2 lives then they will have more than paid for themselves. Reducing traffic speed may not actually prevent collisions but certainly reduces their severity and that's where lives can be saved.

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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby Richardn » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:31 am

And the average journey time has gone up by for easy reckoning 1/4 hr

Low estimate 10,000 vehicles a day (higher in a lot of sections) 2500hr/man/vehicle extra. How much does that cost??? PER DAY
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby DTB » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:45 pm

I remember hearing that a fatal accident costs £1m, but that was a number of years ago so quite believe that they say it costs £2m now. Anyone got any idea how they actually come up with this figure?
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Re: A9 Av speed cameras

Postby jimk » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:09 am

DTB wrote:I remember hearing that a fatal accident costs £1m, but that was a number of years ago so quite believe that they say it costs £2m now. Anyone got any idea how they actually come up with this figure?


This document https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9275/rrcgb2011-02.pdf explains the methodology.

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